I hope this initiative fails and is scrapped. The pain of dealing with slow processing times is unbearable. Also curious why Tokyu is willing to give up processing fee and commission from all transactions to some third-party banks.
Yes, citing atadistance.net blog: “NFC-A (MIFARE and EMV) transaction speeds are rated for a theoretical 250ms but are usually 500ms on open loop transit gates. Suica is always 200ms, often faster.”
Thank you, this is a really eye opening blog post, and I do love that the Japanese already have (because of course they have) compared the NFC standards rigorously. One thing I am scared about is that Japan will do what they always do and tack on multiple systems to make each system worse, even if those systems are separated as the article entails (go into any store in Tokyo and you are met with 60+ payment options, that all work sub-par). The privacy issue definitely one thing that scares me. The fact that Toei is running a promotion where you get 140 yen off for each ride on some of their trains if you use your credit card just shows that they're definitely gaining some of your private date from it that they hope to utilize...
With this said, a NFC B on phones with the 44mm range adapted in countries like Canada for all commuters seems like an amazing option compared to what they have now.
Not sure what do you mean by “all work sub-par” 🤔 Credit cards work exactly the same way as in other countries. IC cards work even better than credit cards because I don’t need to unlock my phone to pay. The only sub-par experience is with QR code payments and only when there is poor internet connection.
All work sub-par is a bit of an exaggeration for sure, but I want my point to come across:
- How many times hasn't it happened that the terminal has a touch logo, but then there's a hand written note (or the casher telling you) that you have to insert your card and the touch payment is only for Suica/ICOCA?
- Paypay requires you to top up cash in advance of paying - not the vendors fault, but I've lived in multiple European countries with QR code payments, and all of them allowed for direct bank transfers.
- A lot of QR code payments are ridiculously dumb. Take Setapay or Hachipay for example (by the way, sponsored by the regional governments) - They require you to go to designated machines and top them up.
- IC cards are good, but again, the issue of topping them up is annoying (especially since you have to go to the train stations to do so). Now, they do offer privacy which is good, and you do have the option to top them up via credit card sometimes, but still often a hassle.
- This talk has so far revolved around major cities. I come from Kumamoto, and trust me when I say that as soon as you leave the comfort of Tokyo/Osaka etc. you are in for a world of pain if you don't have cash... on the countryside some places take cards, some places take pay pay, some restaurants take JCB but not Visa or vice versa. Some places say they take cards but then only accept cash... it is a shitshow and kinda reminds me of Sweden in the early 2000s. It's growing pains for sure, but come one Japan, it's 2024!
I hope this initiative fails and is scrapped. The pain of dealing with slow processing times is unbearable. Also curious why Tokyu is willing to give up processing fee and commission from all transactions to some third-party banks.
Is it much slower to use credit cards?
Yes, citing atadistance.net blog: “NFC-A (MIFARE and EMV) transaction speeds are rated for a theoretical 250ms but are usually 500ms on open loop transit gates. Suica is always 200ms, often faster.”
On this topic I really recommend reading atadistance blog, for example this post covers a lot of details: https://atadistance.net/2022/01/30/hidden-assumptions/
Thank you, this is a really eye opening blog post, and I do love that the Japanese already have (because of course they have) compared the NFC standards rigorously. One thing I am scared about is that Japan will do what they always do and tack on multiple systems to make each system worse, even if those systems are separated as the article entails (go into any store in Tokyo and you are met with 60+ payment options, that all work sub-par). The privacy issue definitely one thing that scares me. The fact that Toei is running a promotion where you get 140 yen off for each ride on some of their trains if you use your credit card just shows that they're definitely gaining some of your private date from it that they hope to utilize...
With this said, a NFC B on phones with the 44mm range adapted in countries like Canada for all commuters seems like an amazing option compared to what they have now.
Not sure what do you mean by “all work sub-par” 🤔 Credit cards work exactly the same way as in other countries. IC cards work even better than credit cards because I don’t need to unlock my phone to pay. The only sub-par experience is with QR code payments and only when there is poor internet connection.
All work sub-par is a bit of an exaggeration for sure, but I want my point to come across:
- How many times hasn't it happened that the terminal has a touch logo, but then there's a hand written note (or the casher telling you) that you have to insert your card and the touch payment is only for Suica/ICOCA?
- Paypay requires you to top up cash in advance of paying - not the vendors fault, but I've lived in multiple European countries with QR code payments, and all of them allowed for direct bank transfers.
- A lot of QR code payments are ridiculously dumb. Take Setapay or Hachipay for example (by the way, sponsored by the regional governments) - They require you to go to designated machines and top them up.
- IC cards are good, but again, the issue of topping them up is annoying (especially since you have to go to the train stations to do so). Now, they do offer privacy which is good, and you do have the option to top them up via credit card sometimes, but still often a hassle.
- This talk has so far revolved around major cities. I come from Kumamoto, and trust me when I say that as soon as you leave the comfort of Tokyo/Osaka etc. you are in for a world of pain if you don't have cash... on the countryside some places take cards, some places take pay pay, some restaurants take JCB but not Visa or vice versa. Some places say they take cards but then only accept cash... it is a shitshow and kinda reminds me of Sweden in the early 2000s. It's growing pains for sure, but come one Japan, it's 2024!